topic Re: PCG-K215B Hard Drive in PCs & Accessories

PCG-K215B Hard Drive

smoking — Sun, 08 Aug 2004 20:39:53 GMT

I just bought my laptop which has the standard 40 GB HD. When I go into 'my computer' the drives are as follows,
C; 5.7GB used & 12.9 GB unused
D; 13.9 GB unused
So the total is 32.5 GB
What happened to the other 7.5 GB and how do I get it back ?

Re: PCG-K215B Hard Drive

hanel — Sun, 08 Aug 2004 21:04:01 GMT

Hi,
You will never get all the hard disk drive space that is stated. When you format a hard drive you create a File Allocation Table which is basically an index of all your files. This information take up a certain percentage of you hard drive. It's something that you've just go to accept.
Cheers
G Hanel

Re: PCG-K215B Hard Drive

grahambird80 — Mon, 09 Aug 2004 11:09:49 GMT

Yep as stated above you wont get that space back. this happens on all computers, as such there is no way to get round this.

Re: PCG-K215B Hard Drive

smoking — Mon, 09 Aug 2004 11:16:02 GMT

Thanks for the reply Hanel , however , the volumes I stated were from brand new , straight out of the box . I can accept that the 5.7 GB used on the C drive would account for the OS , XP Home etc., but if you include my 'missing' 7.5 GB this would mean that over 13 GB of drive space has already been taken up out of a total of 40 GB !

Re: PCG-K215B Hard Drive

vaiodon — Mon, 09 Aug 2004 12:01:18 GMT

Start up the disk management MMC plugin and check what capacity is stated for the partitions

[Start]/[Run]/diskmgmt.msc

That is: hit the Start menu, select run and type in diskmgnt.msc

Diskmgmt will show if there's any unformatted space on the disk.

Also check the actual capacity of the disk, like above run the device management plugin

[Start]/[Run]/devmgmt.msc

Drill down to the disk device - right click and select the [Properties] tab and Populate it. The info presented will confirm the actual capacity of the drive.

You can expect a percentage of the raw disk capacity to be lost with formatting but not the amount you quote. In my case I've got a disk that has a capacity of 38147MBytes, formatted into 23141 & 15006MByte partitions giving two NTFS filesystems of 22600 & 14650MBytes resp. The NTFS formatting is taking up apprx 3% of the partition capacity

With GByte capacity disks there can be a sigificant discrepancy between "base10" gigabytes (how disks are sold, 1K = 1000) and the "base2" formed operating system figure (where 1K = 1024)

Re: PCG-K215B Hard Drive

smoking — Mon, 09 Aug 2004 23:14:03 GMT

Hello Vaiodon
Thanks for getting involved !

I followed you instructions , I ran diskmgmt this is what I got ,
recovery part; 4.66GB capacity -1000mb free space -20% free.
Vaio C; 18.63GB capacity - 12.79GB free space - 68% free
Vaio D; 13.96GB capacity - 13.96GB free space - 99% free

When I ran devmgmt I got the following,
recovery; 4769mb - C; 19077mb - D; 14300mb.

It looks like the numbers on C do'nt add up right , if I'm correct can you let me know where I go from here ?

Logging off for the night

Re: PCG-K215B Hard Drive

kee-lo_ — Tue, 10 Aug 2004 13:04:51 GMT

32.5 sounds about right for a 40GB drive.

As 1GB = 1024MB

Re: PCG-K215B Hard Drive

smoking — Tue, 10 Aug 2004 18:44:50 GMT

Hello Kee-Lo

Sorry to keep on about it but I still do'nt get it ....the capacity in C & D is about 32.5 alright but between the two the actual free space according to dskmgmt only accounts for about 26.8 GB.

Is my OS on C and accounting for 6 GB of space or is it in the seperate recovery partition of 4.6 GB ?

Thanks

Re: PCG-K215B Hard Drive

felixs — Tue, 10 Aug 2004 18:45:58 GMT

hi smoking
it appears to me, that the missing capacity is the recovery partition. Waht is it for? I got a recovery DVD with my notebook and there is no recovery partition an my harddrive.
If i open the workplace and rightclick my drives i get the following in the properties:
C: 30 Giga (27.9 GB)
😧 50 Giga (46.5 GB)
Of course, they sell it as an 80 giga drive.
regards, Felix

Re: PCG-K215B Hard Drive

kee-lo_ — Tue, 10 Aug 2004 18:49:31 GMT

Some VAIOs do have recovery partitions.

Re: PCG-K215B Hard Drive

grahambird80 — Tue, 10 Aug 2004 18:53:39 GMT

Yet the B's which are the base models dont come with a recovery CD but have a recovery partition.

Re: PCG-K215B Hard Drive

vaiodon — Tue, 10 Aug 2004 20:08:34 GMT

Smoking,

The output from devmgnt adds up to 38146mb on 3 partitions - the "unmounted" recovery partition is what's accounting for the lost space.

The 40GB to 38GB difference is attributable to the stuff described below. We've already mentioned that NTFS consumes more space for the structures it needs to define the file system on each partition.

As before, disk manufacturers generally quote capacity in MByte/GBytes using base10 calculations: a diskMByte = 1,000,000 bytes and diskGByte = 1,000,000,000 bytes whereas the PC calculates everything in base2: a MByte = 1048576 bytes (2^20) and GByte = 1073741824 (2^30) bytes. Confusing, eh? Also, the physical disk geometry and the way the NTFS filesystem is laid out can leave unused space on the disk - the disk is laid out in sectors, tracks and cylinders - 512 byte sectors, so many sectors to a track and so many tracks to a cylinder. Not 100% sure of the NTFS block size - either 4K or 8K but the sectors in a block probably have to be continguous so there's some more "capacity" disappeared.

Sorry, this is probably too much information but that 20yrs worth of knowledge has to come out sometimes (I don't feel a day over 38).

Graham - useful info on the 'B' suffix. How does the recovery partition get used? Is it like a Ghost image that can be restored to the other partitions? Leaves the owner a bit exposed if warranty's expired and the disk fails entirely.

Re: PCG-K215B Hard Drive

kee-lo_ — Tue, 10 Aug 2004 20:13:39 GMT

From what I remember it's 4k.

Hopefully in Longhorn they will imporve it.

As for the partition info, I guess it's like Norton Ghost that it copies itself to the C: on recovery.

Re: PCG-K215B Hard Drive

vaiodon — Tue, 10 Aug 2004 21:16:49 GMT

Longhorn - the file system is a whole different story. NTFS will be buried under "WinFS" which has a database like means of storing meta-data about stored data. It's like creating a personal document management system integrated into the file system.

That might be the time to jump ship to Linux - I can't help thinking that Microsoft are feature spec'ing Windows into a high end niche that mere mortals on home PC's just aren't going to need nor understand.

Re: PCG-K215B Hard Drive

smoking — Tue, 10 Aug 2004 23:59:27 GMT

People ,

I'm being blinded by science here - but appreciate your help , however , to me , the numbers I have on my C drive just do'nt add up.

Grahambird80 is right , there is no recovery discs with this unit , I have to make my own ...as a window keeps reminding every time I switch on !

If I make these recovery discs can I then at least use the 4.66 GB of space for myself ? I'm really not happy about having only 27 GB out of an advertised/stated 40 GB.

I had a look at my old 20 GB Dell which still has some stuff on it and it says it has an 18.5 GB capacity and 14 GB free space. Maybe I'm just splitting hairs here but it sounds a better deal.

Whats the verdict ?,is there any more free space in there somewhere or do I start saving up for an external drive ?

Re: PCG-K215B Hard Drive

vaiodon — Wed, 11 Aug 2004 01:22:47 GMT

Sorry, too much thinking out loud.

You can add about 4.3GBytes to what you've got..

1) Please don't dwell on the 40GB, you've got 38.046GBytes "raw" usable capacity in that disk, i.e. the sum of the 3 figures from devmgmt command output, the sum of the three separate partitions on the disk. The proportions aren't that different from the Dell's 20/18.5Gbyte disk. Are you happy with the concept of disks and partitions? C: is only one of 3 partitions on your Vaio's disk - the Dell must have had only one partition.

2) The only space you can reclaim is the recovery partition. I don't know how to make the Vaio recovery disks (I got a recovery disk with mine) but I assume that that you just use some blank CD/DVD's to do so. Do it asap and test that they're readable afterwards and then make another copy if possible!

3) Recovery disks out of the way you can (using diskmgnt) create a third filesystem on what was the recovery partition - i.e. format it - and allocate it a drive letter (the next available) or mount it so it looks like another folder. The usable capacity of that will be approximately 4.3GBytes. So then your total usable capacity will be 18.63 + 13.96 + 4.3(est) = 36.9 GBytes. The Windows XP NTFS filesystem accounts for the difference between 38.046GBytes, above, and this 36.9GBytes.

4) On C:, the 5.84GBytes used capacity doesn't sound too extreme for a Vaio's installed software package - Windows XP, the Adobe package, Click to DVD, etc..

Re: PCG-K215B Hard Drive

smoking — Wed, 11 Aug 2004 13:14:33 GMT

Hi Vaiodon,

OK , I've read your post a few times now and its starting to sink in at last. Basically I'm loosing free space because ,

1. there are three partitions set up
2.the recovery partition
3.the actual volume of a GB
4.the software supplied

The space taken up by the software sounds an awful lot , is there any way I can go in and get a complete breakdown of it all and delete anything I know I'm never going to use ?

I promise I will make a couple of recovery discs asap , I can then have a look at taking back the recovery partition for myself - I assume you can just format the recover partition on its own ?, however, if its a bit convoluted I may leave well enough alone , not being technically minded I'd be worried about breaking something !

Thanks again.

Re: PCG-K215B Hard Drive

kee-lo_ — Wed, 11 Aug 2004 13:59:17 GMT

Smoking,

I would make 3 copies of the backup procedure (grandfather, father son idea of backup) so if one fails, there's still another one and one left for making copies if the second one dies.

Removing the backup partition isn't going to be easy really so I'd leave it be.

Re: PCG-K215B Hard Drive

smoking — Wed, 11 Aug 2004 18:36:45 GMT

Kee-Lo,

Many thanks to you and everyone else for all the help and advise.

Smoking

Re: PCG-K215B Hard Drive

vaiodon — Wed, 11 Aug 2004 19:56:34 GMT

Smoking,

Persistence, persistence!

You've got it! The recovery partition is the big factor. It's quite straight forward to format a file system onto it and assign another drive letter. The diskmgmt.msc management plugin, described earlier, is the tool - just right click on the recovery partition and select [Format] - when the format completes (a good few minutes) right click again and select [Change Letter and Drive Paths]. You can either give it a letter (F:, possibly, allowing for your CD/DVD drive) or you can "mount" it so it simply looks like another folder (e.g. D:\workspace).

You can check out what software is installed using the Add or Remove Programs applet in Control Panel, using the [Start]/[Run] method I've described earlier, enter

control c:\windows\system32\appwiz.cpl,Add/Remove Programs

(it's easier than describing a load of menu selections)

It quotes the size of the various applications installed. I can't be sure that it'll be 100% accurate or the sum of all the sizes add up to your C: drive usage but it'll be a guide.

Try one of the O'Reilly Windows XP in a Nutshell books as a good reference volume,