topic Re: What happens with USB 2 on Vaio?? in PCs & Accessories

What happens with USB 2 on Vaio??

mystudio — Fri, 13 Aug 2004 07:24:54 GMT

My Vaio PCG K115s keeps telling me that I am connecting a fast USB hardware to a slow USB port. That's strange, 'cause, I thought all USB ports are USB 2.0 on this Vaio, I thought. It happens when I am connecting more then one USB thing on the USB slots. So, when the logiteck mouse is connected, and I plug in the USB 2 cardreader, I get this pop up screen. When the mouse isnt connected, it doesnt appear.
Is the mouse decreeasing the spead on the USB ports? And, are the three USB slots just on one USB port? What is the workaround, in that case?

Anyone who has an idea, be welcome!

Thanks in advance.
Marco

Re: What happens with USB 2 on Vaio??

kee-lo_ — Fri, 13 Aug 2004 14:56:21 GMT

Have you tried the other ports Marco?
I'm sure the K series has USB2.

Re: What happens with USB 2 on Vaio??

vaiodon — Fri, 13 Aug 2004 23:01:27 GMT

I think you've just confirmed something I've suspected for a while and have been trying to find the answer to, i.e., when a USB1.1 device is plugged into a USB2 port that USB interface runs at the speed of the slowest device.

I've got an RZ series desktop with 8 USB ports served by 4 controllers. I have tried to keep USB2 and USB1.1 devices segregated across the controllers avoiding mixing USB2 and 1.1 devices on the two ports shared by one controller.

Don't know how many USB ports your Vaio has but you might be shafted if there's only 2!

A fix might be to put a 4 port USB2 controller/hub outboard of the Vaio - that, I think, will ensure that the Vaio port runs a full USB2 speed while each port on the hub will run according to what's attached.

Re: What happens with USB 2 on Vaio??

smoking — Fri, 13 Aug 2004 23:49:36 GMT

Hello Mystudio,

I only recently purchased my Vaio having previously owned an older Dell which only had USB 1 . I had similar problems when I connected a USB 2 device to the Dell , Vaiodon is correct in saying that the device will run at the slower speed.

Might I suggest you have a look at the following sites that I came across at the time , which I found very helpful and informitive.

www.usbman.com
www.pcbuyerbeware.co.uk/USB.htm

Re: What happens with USB 2 on Vaio??

vaiodon — Mon, 16 Aug 2004 00:58:22 GMT

Following up on smoking's links my suspicions and my last paragraph fully confirmed.

 A fix might be to put a 4 port USB2 controller/hub outboard of the Vaio - that, I think, will ensure that the Vaio port runs a full USB2 speed while each port on the hub will run according to what's attached

(At the risk of supplying too much information...) the USB 2.0 hub design includes something called a "transaction translator" that allows data from USB1.0(~1Mbps), USB1.1 (12Mbps), USB2.0 (480Mbps) devices all to be buffered onto a host side USB2.0 bus running at 480Mbps.

A Belkin Tetra Hub T4 (F5U231) seems to be the mutts nuts as it has one TT per downstream port.

Re: What happens with USB 2 on Vaio??

kee-lo_ — Mon, 16 Aug 2004 14:42:58 GMT

Belkin's gear is very good.

Re: What happens with USB 2 on Vaio??

mystudio — Mon, 16 Aug 2004 16:59:39 GMT

Well.....I have tried all ports and all have the same problem. That say, when only one USB 2 device is connected, there is no problem. The problem appears when the mouse (logitech/led/wheelmouse) is connected to anu USB port and a USB 2 device is also being connected somewhere on one of the three ports.

Does the Vaio have only one controller for three ports? In that case, when you connect an USB 2 hub, the problem will remain, doesn't it?

Re: What happens with USB 2 on Vaio??

kee-lo_ — Mon, 16 Aug 2004 17:35:44 GMT

Does the Vaio have only one controller for three ports? In that case, when you connect an USB 2 hub, the problem will remain, doesn't it?

If thats the case then yes.
You would have to consider getting a USB2.0 cardbus card.

Re: What happens with USB 2 on Vaio??

mystudio — Mon, 16 Aug 2004 20:02:55 GMT

Well, I don't know if that's the case, but if it IS, I would say it's a bad design idea from the boyz of Sony.........why would they do that?

Re: What happens with USB 2 on Vaio??

kee-lo_ — Mon, 16 Aug 2004 20:15:07 GMT

Because they suck.
No idea, doesn't make sense to me at all.

Re: What happens with USB 2 on Vaio??

vaiodon — Mon, 16 Aug 2004 22:45:38 GMT

No, if you use a true USB 2.0 hub you'll be able to get devices running at the right speeds. Slowest devices connected downstream of the hub while the USB2.0/480Mbps devices are connected directly to the Vaio.

Internal to the Vaio there's a controller and a hub. You can work out the internal USB topology if you dive into the settings/control panel/admin tools/device manager applet but from your description it sounds like your Vaio has a single host controller and a 3 port root hub.

The "transaction translator" I mentioned above is the key to keeping the controller & root hub working at USB2/480Mbps speed while supporting peripheral devices working at their native speeds.

The TT allows the hub to buffer the data flows from USB1.0 & 1.1 devices onto a full speed USB2.0 interface.

Some external USB hubs, like the Belkin T4, have these transaction translator devices on each of their downstream ports so between the hub & the Vaio USB would run at 480Mbps while the hub separately buffers slower speed devices. Other USB2 hubs appear to have only one transaction translator so if one keeps all USB-2/480Mbps devices upstream of a single TT hub then that interface speed will be maintained while, downstream of the hub, the slowest connected device dictates the interface speed downstream of the hub just like the situation you have without an external hub.

That's my interpretation of what I've read recently - I'm confident I've picked it up correctly. An email to Belkin might confirm the story on the other hand the agent handling the email response might not be that savvy!