topic Re: AX53 moving from PAL to NTSC in Camcorders

AX53 moving from PAL to NTSC

telelaci — Thu, 01 Dec 2016 01:21:30 GMT

I got an FDR-AX53 camcorder. A type 50i for PAL, thats typed on the bottom. Is there any way to make it 60i NTSC ? Maybe with US firmware or something ? I use NTSC things and 30p would be very important, but I have only 25p or 50p.

Thanks.

Re: AX53 moving from PAL to NTSC

Jonnie1266 — Thu, 01 Dec 2016 12:55:02 GMT

Hi,

So far as I am aware the models are Country specific i.e. If you purchase the European version it is preset for PAL, North America/Canada it is preset for NTSC

I have the same model as yourself and have updated to software version 1.02 found on the Sony support site here

but these software updates are not to achieve what you are requesting. I think the answer lies within the label plate on the bottom and as you say it is labelled type 50i for PAL.

Perhaps there is a way to do it coming from Sony themselves but I have never heard of this happening before ?

Regards

Re: AX53 moving from PAL to NTSC

telelaci — Thu, 01 Dec 2016 13:17:23 GMT

Hi Jonnie,

Thanks for the answer.

Yes, I understand the standards. I'm just wondering how strict those rules are. To change my camera to i60. Is it impossible because Sony doesn't want me to do that, or just tricky, maybe a serviceman necessary to open and set the device? No problem I'll pay for it. Its not broken that is true, but its a big disappointment because I can't barely use it, my target device works only with 30fps and 60fps, how can I convert those from 25fps and 50fps without losing quality ?

Regards,

Laci

Re: AX53 moving from PAL to NTSC

Tantramancan — Tue, 21 Feb 2017 11:59:05 GMT

Surely you can convert/Render n Vegas Pro 13 , or even in Handbrake, ? just a thought.

Re: AX53 moving from PAL to NTSC

telelaci — Tue, 21 Feb 2017 12:45:44 GMT

Hi Tantra,

Thanks for the answer, but you misunderstood it.

I have 30p/60p devices in the chain, for example an HDMI / USB3 converter. It doesn't accept 50p or 25p video signal

Re: AX53 moving from PAL to NTSC

AlanatCBF — Mon, 03 Jul 2017 15:30:16 GMT

I have purchased a Sony FDR-AX53 in the USA in May 2017 which is 60i. I was assured at the time of purchase that the 4K system was universal and would work in the USA and the UK without any conversion or problems.

Can you please confirm that the advice I received from a main Sony retailer in the USA was correct?

Thanks.

Re: AX53 moving from PAL to NTSC

telelaci — Mon, 03 Jul 2017 18:21:03 GMT

Hi Alan,

No, its not true. This is why I'm upset. You can not set the format of the device as you like it, and its not universal at all.

They sell different type in Europe. My device is "i50" for PAL and yours is "i60" for NTSC system. Its labelled on the bottom.

And we can not change that. I have American video devices almost all, and I have to convert the video, if I want to use them. But I can not use them in the video chain at all.

For example I have an HDMI/USB3 converter, it works nicely for 30p and 60p videos. But my camera outputs 25p and 50p. I cant use it.

Your camera (i60):

30p 3840x2160p (4k)

60p, 120p 1920x1080p (Full HD)

My camera (i50)

25p 3840x2160p (4k)

50p, 100p 1920x1080p (Full HD)

The picture quality is about the same. And the devices are worth the same value. Just they are not compatible and interchangeable.

I expected that Sony could make an universal device, but its not true, I'm very disappointed.

Regards,

Laci

Re: AX53 moving from PAL to NTSC

wolf-hg — Fri, 09 Mar 2018 16:57:37 GMT

It can be done with this tool:

https://github.com/ma1co/OpenMemories-Tweak

Just be sure to have the camera already set to 24p mode (important!) or else it has no effect. Also, do not reset the camcorder or you will have to use the tweak again.

Your warranty will most likely be void if you do this.

Re: AX53 moving from PAL to NTSC

telelaci — Fri, 16 Mar 2018 17:00:13 GMT

Hi Wolf,

Thank you very much, probably this is the best solution, although its recommended for IT guys only, not for amateurs. I'm an IT guy no problem, but unfortunately you are already late, because I've bought a Panasonic Lumix GH5 already, I don't care Sony anymore I sold it.

I don't like Sony's policy, and this is just proves that I was right.

Because then its possible to switch to NTSC from PAL and back, just SONY doesn't want you to do that !!!! They want to limit it !

Hahaha. No Sony anymore, they want my money, but they want to command the rules.

My GH5 is a way better video camera in many aspects, actually in every aspects.

For example the best 4k setting is

Sony: 4k 25fps 8-bit XAVC 100MBit/sec

GH5: 4k 60fps 10bit H.265 400MBit/sec

The video quality difference is huge, you can imagine. And that is a mirrorless with changeable lens.

I thank Sony for leading me to Panasonic GH5 and forced me to change.

Thanks Wolf though, you are a good man.

Re: AX53 moving from PAL to NTSC

AlanatCBF — Mon, 02 Apr 2018 15:28:23 GMT

Thanks Laci,

I have to say I am baffled. What is 25 or 30?

The AX53 seems to playback okay when I connect the camera to a UK TV. But the Sony PlayMemories has completely foxed me. So I am stuck with my video on the SD Card until I work out how to download it and save it onto my Mac.

So, what is the difference between 60i (the camera I purchased in USA) or 50i (Where I live in the UK)?

Re: AX53 moving from PAL to NTSC

IamNic — Mon, 02 Apr 2018 15:31:53 GMT

Hi @AlanatCBF,

the numbers are frame-rates - meaning how many video images the camera will record per second.

For countries with a 50Hz power frequency, you preferrably use 25 or 50 frames per second, since you won't be experiencing image flicker when filming under artificial AC-light.

- Nic

Re: AX53 moving from PAL to NTSC

AlanatCBF — Mon, 02 Apr 2018 17:13:54 GMT

Thank you Nic,

Does this mean that my 60i camera should work in the UK but not so well under artificail light?

Are there any other drawbacks to buying a 60i camera in the USA (I was told by the retail outlet [Samy's Cameras in San Francisco] that it would work fine in the UK!!).

Alan

Re: AX53 moving from PAL to NTSC

telelaci — Mon, 02 Apr 2018 17:14:25 GMT

Hi Nick,

I'm not so sure about that flashing reason. The old incandescent bulbs work with heat, a filament is heated up to white glowing, it can't stop doing that so quickly 50/60 times in a second, the heat has big inertia.

The newer LED lights work usually with DC, maybe PWM but not 50/60 Hz at all. You might be right, I donno, but I'm not sure.

Hi Alan,

Simply they are standards like NTSC (US) and PAL (Europe).

The 60i camera is NTSC and the 50i camera is PAL. All modern displays, TV's handles both standards, you won't notice any difference, you don't have to worry. But sometimes, some other devices in the video chain can't handle PAL/NTSC and vica-versa.

When you use a video device in the chain, or a software or a service, or anything , you always have to check whether it handles the video format what you used or it can't handle it. Meaning framerate(fps), comression codec, file format.

And in UK, you have almost 100% chance everything handles PAL standards (although UK also has stupid custom standards, but who doesn't) and in US everything handles NTSC standars.

In the latest years, in general every video devices handles every standards, that is quite common and usual. Or at least it's switchable, you have a menu and you switch between NTSC and PAL, ok fine.

But in case of this camera you can't switch, all is hard-coded and printed on the bottom 50i=PAL 60i=NTSC .

This is why I was upset, its like 15 years ago. Are we flying back in time or what?

But unless you have a specific reason to use a specific non-NTSC video mode, you won't have any problem with 60i camera. I've never seen a TV not handling NTSC signal. Maybe my grampa's TV.

What is 25 and 30 you asked. Those are the framerates, frames per seconds or fps. One makes 25 frames (still pictures) per second (PAL) other one makes 30 (NTSC). The quality is about the same because the video stream is 100Mbps, the 30 frames are a little more compressed (blocky) than the 25 frames. Most of people would choose 30fps rather than 25fps, and 60fps instead of 50fps, the higher framerate is a little more desirable.

I can't give any advice to Mac and PlayMemories sorry, I never used those things.

Re: AX53 moving from PAL to NTSC

IamNic — Mon, 02 Apr 2018 17:20:53 GMT

Hi @AlanatCBF,

@AlanatCBF schrieb:

Does this mean that my 60i camera should work in the UK

yes, it will work.

@AlanatCBF schrieb:

but not so well under artificail light?

That depends on the type of light source you use. Incandescent bulbs and tube lights alternate their brightness when running of AC current.

Here is a nice example of the effect you will see:

@AlanatCBF schrieb:

Are there any other drawbacks to buying a 60i camera in the USA (I was told by the retail outlet [Samy's Cameras in San Francisco] that it would work fine in the UK!!).

Yes, there are drawbacks - if you have any issue with the camera, you won't get support in the UK.

You would need to travel back to the country you bought it (in this case the US) and send it to a repair from there.

- Nic

Re: AX53 moving from PAL to NTSC

darkframe — Tue, 03 Apr 2018 23:25:51 GMT

Hi,

@telelaci schrieb:

I'm not so sure about that flashing reason. The old incandescent bulbs work with heat, a filament is heated up to white glowing, it can't stop doing that so quickly 50/60 times in a second, the heat has big inertia.

well, you're right and wrong at the same time.

Actually those old bulbs do go on and off several times each second. What I've read is that this flickering takes place a 100 times a second in a 50 Hz surrounding (can't explain why 100 times though). Whatsoever, you're right in saying that the filament can't completely stop glowing that fast and actually it says that luminosity decreases by 5 - 15% only in the "no-currency"-stages. This is however visible to any camera, causing the said flashing.

More information on this page: Avoid flickering lights

Cheers,

darkframe

Re: AX53 moving from PAL to NTSC

telelaci — Tue, 03 Apr 2018 23:36:49 GMT

Hi Darkframe,

...can't explain why 100 times though..

Because the voltage crosses the x axis (0V) 100 times per second, 2 times in a period. Thats 50Hz sine curve.

And yes you are right, I've seen on the video Nic uploaded. Its flashing, undisputed.

Regards,

Laci

Re: AX53 moving from PAL to NTSC

telelaci — Tue, 03 Apr 2018 23:55:29 GMT

Wow, and I watched your video :

More information on this page: Avoid flickering lights

, and it shows a very simple method to avoid flickering, very good idea, setting shutter speed or shutter angle.

Hopefully Alan also will watch it, he should know about that trick. Its perfect.

Re: AX53 moving from PAL to NTSC

darkframe — Thu, 05 Apr 2018 18:47:49 GMT

Hi telelaci,

Because the voltage crosses the x axis (0V) 100 times per second, 2 times in a period. Thats 50Hz sine curve.

errm, feeling somehow stupid, all of a sudden...

Yes, of course, I completely forgot about that when answering. Thanks!

Cheers,

darkframe

Re: AX53 moving from PAL to NTSC

derbian — Sun, 21 Oct 2018 17:03:28 GMT

I am already past my warranty period for my AX53, and would love to use the OpenMemories tweak. However so far I have not succeeded, even in 24p mode and following the instructions on the tweak's page. If someone in here was able to get it working with an AX53, I would like to hear how you did it.