topic Re: Sony A77ii Flexible Spot AF question in Alpha & NEX interchangeable lens cameras

Sony A77ii Flexible Spot AF question

Snerkler — Thu, 03 Jul 2014 15:57:03 GMT

I have just bought the Sony A77ii as a replacement for my A77 and there is a feature that I think is missing as wonder whether it will be made available on a software update? On my original A77 I used single spot AF (local) 99% of the time. When using this the AF point you had currently selected was highlighted, but you could still see the other AF points available for selection. This allowed me to know exactly where I was within the AF points, and also whether I was on a cross type or line type AF point. The A77ii now has the name flexible spot rather than local I believe, but the only AF point on the screen is the one currently selected, all the other AF points do not show. This means I cannot quickly work out which point I'm on and whether or not I am a cross type or line type. The only way I can do this is to go back to the centre point and then count how many I move out and how many I move up and down, which is not very intuitive or quick as you can imagine. There may of course be a setting to show the other AF points but so far I have not found it. The only function I have found is AF area auto clear, but all this does is make the selected AF point disappear after focus lock. For someone who used the AF point markers as a quick reference this is a big disappointment in my opinion and is less user friendly than the original A77. I hope it is something that can be fixed with an update, preferably giving the option to show them or not for those whose prefer no to have it. Is there a setting for this that I have missed? Cheers.

Re: Sony A77ii Flexible Spot AF question

BabaRaw — Mon, 07 Jul 2014 23:31:10 GMT

From what I understood.
Go to Menu then the 2nd page/tab "Setting" which is next to the Camera icon then page 3 and option 3
its called "Flexible Spot Points" change it to "15 Points" see if thats what you are looking for...

Re: Sony A77ii Flexible Spot AF question

Snerkler — Mon, 07 Jul 2014 22:37:36 GMT

Thanks but no it isn't. All that does is change it from 79 available points to 61. Not 100% sure why you'd want to reduce the number tbh unless people want consistency as some lenses only use 61 points.

There's an option to display the AF points or not in wide AF, but not flexible spot which seems very odd to me. I contacted Sony about this to see if they could add this feature in an update and they passed it on to the relevant department. I'll not hold my breath, although I guess if enough people like me who try to stick to cross type points contact sony about this then maybe they'll add it. Still seems odd to me as surely you'd want some sort of reference as to which point you're on as I'm sure I'm not the only one who tries to use cross type where possible?

Re: Sony A77ii Flexible Spot AF question

BabaRaw — Mon, 07 Jul 2014 23:31:57 GMT

The 79 to 61 that you are talking about is this one.

The one I am talking about is below that which is 3rd if you change it from "All" to "15 Points" you will get the single spot along with other dim focusing points which you could than move with your joy stick its same as "local"... Note for that you have to set the focusing on Flexible Spot not Expandable

Re: Sony A77ii Flexible Spot AF question

Snerkler — Tue, 08 Jul 2014 07:39:42 GMT

Thanks but all that does is limit the amount of points you can use. If you look at the setting below that one "Wide AF area points" and toggle this on and off and see what effect this has when shooting in wide AF, this is what I want for flexible spot. I want it to display all AF points in the background with the selected one highlighted, this way I know which spot I'm on and whether or not I'm on cross type.

Re: Sony A77ii Flexible Spot AF question

BabaRaw — Tue, 08 Jul 2014 13:15:54 GMT

I totally understand what you are trying to say and what you want but I think if any person who has used A77 can easily remember and switch between different focus points without being them displayed on LCD. I do macro photography of insects its usually high magnification like 4X plus which makes DOF very very shallow, all I do is keep the focus point in center and after locking my focus on area of intrest I move the camera accordingly to frame my shot the way I want. You can easily work with one focus point I never had a problem specially A77ii with its new focusing system because the tracking "Square" works better than before. Having 79 focus points displayed on screen is "in my understanding" not much pleasing because in some light situations the focus points do hide the important details of the image. Thats why they have this option called "AF Area Auto Clear" which clears the af points when focus is locked so you could see better. I really dont understand what you are trying to achieve with that feature. But as far as remembering the focus point position is concerned your best choice so far is to Put the focus mode on Expand flexible spot which would give you an idea where your focus point is along with other 8 dim/small focus points around it. you can also estimate the focus point position from the grid/border lines of the focusing area on LCD. Other wise my dear just hope that sony enabels it according to your wish in next FW update.

Re: Sony A77ii Flexible Spot AF question

Snerkler — Tue, 08 Jul 2014 13:40:23 GMT

Thanks for your reply and trying to help it's much appreciated, although I do think you are missing my point to a certain extent. FYI I too do macro, but I wouldn never use AF for such shallow DOF. MF and focus peaking is all I use.

Anyway, back to the AF markers. Expandible flexible spot does not help my issue either.

Let me clarify my point. With the A77 the grid marking the AF points was visible at all times, I could therefore frame my subject, move the AF point to the closest cross type AF point to my subject and then recompose if necessary. Usually recomposition wasn't necessary as the cross types were well spread. With the A77ii the AF point grid is not visible so as I move the flexible spot point around the frame to focus on the subject I have no way of knowing whether I'm on a cross type or not. I'm too busy framing the subject not counting how many moves across and up/down I have made with the AF point. With the A77 you didn't have to count as the AF grid was there and I could just look where I was and see whether I was on cross type or not. I usually work with shallow AF so the focus point had to be accurate which is why 99% of the time I use spot (local) rather than wide or zone. Also, due to the shallow DOF it's not always a good idea to recompose too much, so using centre point and then recomposing can often mean you've moved out of the plane of focus.

Hopefully you can see now what I'm trying to acheive? If not tell me this, when you're composing a shot using single point AF (flexible spot) do you instantly know if the AF point you're on is cross type or line? I don't just by looking. At the moment I'm having to use the various icons around the screen as a reference and draw mental grids across the screen to know if I'm on cross type or not. Horizontal's not too much of an issue as they're only spread across the central zone, but vertically is a little more challenging as they are every other line, and without a reference grid it's hard to know which line/row you're on.

I personally don't think the smaller sqauares of the AF grid are distracting when framing the shot. However, I do see that some might which is why it would be nice to have the feature to turn it on or off. On for those like me who instantly want to know which AF point they're on and so know if they are on a cross type or not, and off for those who do not want the disctraction.

I know every one shoots differently and not everyone will want the AF points displayed, but as I've already mentioned they already have this option for wide already, so why not spot too? As I said, this seems odd to me. I have emailed Sony so time will tell if they add it or not. If not I will have to continue mentally draw grids.

It's not the end of the world by any stretch, and in good light I'm not too bothered whether I use cross type or line. However, in low light I'd rather stick to cross type and then I know AF will be more accurate. Oh, and I don't use subject tracking per se. Quite often I want to pin point an eye for example and the tracking square is too large an area.

Re: Sony A77ii Flexible Spot AF question

BabaRaw — Tue, 08 Jul 2014 14:15:39 GMT

The grid I am talking about is the one that covers Af points up and down.

and I don't limit my self to one style only I change my methods according to situations, like lighting, angles, position of my setup. Also im not a good manual focuser when it come to catch a flying bee or butterfly. my very first camera was with AF. & yes i can easily remember the cross type AF points, & I dont understand why can't you??? I mean being a macro photographer why are you having such a hard time remembering the cross types Af points they are only 15 and are in the center area.

The above is from Sony A77ii brochure. greens are Cross Types...
and by the way do you have any online space where you share your photography skills you write like an expert.

Re: Sony A77ii Flexible Spot AF question

Snerkler — Tue, 08 Jul 2014 14:54:54 GMT

Yes I understand all that, and yes I can remember where the cross type points are. But say I move away from the centre point am I up one line, 3 lines etc. It's not easy to tell as the AF you've selected is just somewhere in that space, there's no reference point. If every time I compose I count, for example move left one and up 2 I know I'm on a cross type. However, If I'm just moving the AF point around without counting it's not isntantly clear whether I've moved up 2 or 3 etc as the points are so close together.

I don't have my camera on me at the moment to show a screen shot, but I'll try to remember later so I can show what I mean. That first grid does not show the AF points up and down, only the 8 points around the selected point, and as pointed out I don't use expand flexible spot.

And lol at your comment about me writing like an expert, I'm merely answering your replies.

So to clarify again. Yes I have memorised where the cross points are, but when using flexible spot and moving it around it is not instantly obvious to know if I am on those cross points as there's no reference point to know whether I've moved up 2 lines or 3 lines for example. You have to keep referring back to the centre point to then see how far you've moved.

As I previously said, it's not a big deal, it would just make it nicer and quicker to use if I could toggle the grid. Unfortunately through this rather lengthy discussion it now looks like a bigger deal than it actually is.

Just to finish off it would be nice actually if the A77ii did what my Olympus Em10 does. As you are moving the AF point around all the AF points are displayed. As soon as you stop moving the AF point around all the other points disappear and you're just left with the one you've selected. This way you know instantly which point you've chosen without having to count all the time, and then it's not blocking your view whe composing.

I'm going to leave this discussion now as it's going around in circles.

Re: Sony A77ii Flexible Spot AF question

BabaRaw — Tue, 08 Jul 2014 15:02:50 GMT

I was about to say the same thing lolz its not going around in circles its going "spherical" have a great time buddy we all learn with time somtimes easy way some times the hard way. So keep learning & it would've been great if I could see your photography work but no worries
BaBye

Re: Sony A77ii Flexible Spot AF question

Snerkler — Tue, 08 Jul 2014 18:21:18 GMT

Yeah, I appreciate your help and the effort you've gone to so thanks for that. At the end of the day it's just a preference of how I want the camera set up. It doesn't really detract from what is a truly impressive bit of kit.

I don't mind sharing my Flickr account but my theoretical knowledge is better than my practical skills so I fear you will be disappointed lol. I've only been doing photography for just under a year.

My Flickr photostream

[Edited by moderator to remove personal details]

There's a lot of various things on there. If you like Macro most (but not all) of my macro is in the insects album. Some of it's reasonable towards the end I guess. I'd love to shoot like Thomas Shahan one day. In fact I'd love to be able to shoot 10% as good as him

Re: Sony A77ii Flexible Spot AF question

Snerkler — Tue, 08 Jul 2014 19:01:47 GMT

Sorry I know I said I was going to leave this thread, but just in case anyone else picks up on it, this is what I meant. From this view I do not know instantly which AF point I am on. I can see I'm one left of centre, but I don't know if I'm 2 up and therefore on cross type or 3 up and therefore on line. If I study it I can work out I'm 2 up and therefore cross type, but if I had the AF point grid displayed (the tiny squares as shown on wide if selected) I could tell in a flash.

As I say, it's a small thing that has probably been made to look more of an issue by the length of this discussion lol.

Re: Sony A77ii Flexible Spot AF question

Portmixus — Tue, 08 Jul 2014 20:29:21 GMT

I don't have the A77II anymore (got one on loan, but had to return it).

I didn't read the entire thread, but if you're looking for a way to make all AF points visible...it's worth the try.

In the menu it's called:

AF Area Auto Clear Sets whether the focus area should be displayed all the time
or disappear shortly after the focus is achieved.
(On/Off)

If this doesn't work, I don't think it's possible. (except for the 15 AF point mode, all AF points are shown continuously).

Re: Sony A77ii Flexible Spot AF question

Snerkler — Tue, 08 Jul 2014 20:32:32 GMT

Thanks but this has already been discussed and is not what I'm looking for. All this does is make the selected AF point disappear after focus has been achieved, it does not display the AF point grid.

Re: Sony A77ii Flexible Spot AF question

Portmixus — Tue, 08 Jul 2014 20:38:10 GMT

Sorry it didn't help, I guessed that.

I also appreciate it to see where I am on the grid, therefore I used the 15 point AF, but then you have only the center corss type AF point. To overcome this, the only thing left is experience and memorise the grid

Perhaps in a future firmware upgrade...(79 AF points gives a very dense image and probably the reason why they don't show this as an option)...

Re: Sony A77ii Flexible Spot AF question

Snerkler — Tue, 08 Jul 2014 20:46:10 GMT

This is the trouble I've been explaining through this thread. I can memorise the grid, BUT there is then no grid displayed to know where you are on the grid. As I've said you can toggle this grid on and off when using wide AF and I don't think it clutters the screen up as the squares on the grid are very small and quite faint.

As I've said already I find it strange they give you option to toggle the grid on and off in wide, but not in spot. Obviously it's not needed for centre, and it makes sense not to show it in expandable spot, but it would be very useful (for me at least) to have the grid displayed using flexible spot.

Re: Sony A77ii Flexible Spot AF question

huvmannen — Tue, 23 Sep 2014 21:09:37 GMT

i guess you may find what you seek by puch the Fn button then go in to focus Area

guess late awnser on this post but ill just got mine so 🙂

Re: Sony A77ii Flexible Spot AF question

Snerkler — Tue, 23 Sep 2014 21:15:21 GMT

Thanks, but no that just selects the different AF mode, doesn't allow you to select a grid using single spot (flexible spot)