topic Betreff: 5.1 DD and DTS passthrough on KD-43XD8099 in Android TV

5.1 DD and DTS passthrough on XD80 model

diodorus — Fri, 24 Mar 2017 09:50:32 GMT

Hello,

I have a XD80 Bravia (KD-43XD8099) connected to a 5.1 receiver via optical.

I have never been able to passthrough any 5.1 audio (DD or DTS) in any app (e.g. PLEX or NETFLIX) other than:

the built in sony video app (which however doesn't let me correct the bad lip-sync issues)
KODI v17, but only until a couple of weeks ago. Now I can only get **some** results using the "Enable Sync Playback to Display" option within KODI, but it's not a good enogh solution.

I read on KODI forums that DD (but not DTS) audio passthrough should actually work on KODI v17 (?)

Can you please share your experience/settings with passthrough, especially in KODI (and/or PLEX)?

I'm puzzled on why it suddenly stopped working for me.

Thanks

diodorus

Betreff: 5.1 DD and DTS passthrough on KD-43XD8099

Kuschelmonschter — Fri, 24 Mar 2017 07:07:51 GMT

It is not easy to explain. When Android started out on the TV, it lacked respective APIs for audio passthrough. So SoC manufacturers started to implement some private APIs in their drivers which mostly only the stock apps (like the Video app) used.

Another approach to get AC3/DTS out of the TV was using the so-called "PCM Hack". It misuses the uncompressed audio (PCM) channel to output compressed bitstream audio. Now you can do all kinds of operations on uncrompressed audio like changing the volume or mixing it with some other audio. And if somebody along the PCM pipeline perfoms any operation on the compressed bitstream audio, you effectively end up with garbled AC3/DTS which can harm your audio hardware or even your ears. Kodi Jarvis (16) used this "PCM Hack" for example.

Google strongly discouraged developers from using the "PCM Hack" due to the above reasons. So with every Android version, new formats got added to a standard raw bitstream API:

Lollipop (intial Android TV version): AC3 (Dolby Digital), E-AC3 (Dolby Digital Plus)

Marshmallow: DTS, DTS-HD

Nougat: Dolby True HD

Bitstream audio won't get altered along this path. The problem however is that MediaTek (being the SoC manufacturer for Sony) is very slow in adopting the standardized APIs which are used by 3rd party apps (like Kodi Krypton).

Until recently, the only thing you could get out of the Sony via standardized API was AC3 with bit rates up to 448kbps, but not with 640kbps. This got fixed with latest ATV1 driver (2015 line-up, spring 2016 line-up). Your TV is ATV2. So you will probably have to wait for this fix (don't know whether V6.1004 fixes it). DTS unfortunately is still a no-go.

You will never be able to output HD/3D audio from today's TVs (via ARC or S/PDIF). So you will always be limited to AC3/DTS which is more than good enough for the average Joe. HD/3D audio via ARC won't be supported until HDMI 2.1 (eARC).

So that's the current situation. Sony needs to kick MediaTek in the ass. But with the 640kbps issue fixed, I am confident that we might also get DTS at some point in time. It is just another bitstream that needs to be carried over the cable, so it is actually not any different from AC3.

Betreff: 5.1 DD and DTS passthrough on KD-43XD8099

diodorus — Fri, 24 Mar 2017 10:01:12 GMT

Kuschelmonschter,

Thanks a lot for the detailed explanation! I'd be happy with "just" AC3 and DTS, or even AC3 only, to be honest.

A couple of final questions, if I may:

What has actually triggered the change (and is that something that can be rolled back)? Was it an android update (from Lollipop to Marshmallow)? To be honest I thought I was always on Marshmallow: have I completely missed that? Or maybe the update from Kodi 17.0 to 17.1... (although I don't think so)?
Do you think this is likely to be fixed, and is there anything we could do to highlight this (again?) to Sony?

Thanks!

diodorus

Re: 5.1 DD and DTS passthrough on XD80 model

oo.viper.oo — Fri, 24 Mar 2017 10:06:50 GMT

Go through this thread: http://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=298273

You'll also find there links to custom Kodi buids with PCM hack.

Re: 5.1 DD and DTS passthrough on XD80 model

Kuschelmonschter — Fri, 24 Mar 2017 11:21:07 GMT

What has actually triggered the change (and is that something that can be rolled back)? Was it an android update (from Lollipop to Marshmallow)? To be honest I thought I was always on Marshmallow: have I completely missed that? Or maybe the update from Kodi 17.0 to 17.1... (although I don't think so)?

There has neither been a regression between 17.0 and 17.1, unless you used a custom build as pointed out by @oo.viper.oo, nor between versions of the operating system.

Do you think this is likely to be fixed, and is there anything we could do to highlight this (again?) to Sony?

Dunno. Bothering the support won't help. They wouldn't understand your concern and just discard your request. Bad press on social media is probably the only thing they will listen to...

oo.viper.oo schrieb:
Go through this thread: http://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=298273
You'll also find there links to custom Kodi buids with PCM hack.

I discourage the use of the PCM hack. It works for a lot of people, but also fails for a lot of them. I can easily provoke the issue. People really had to go to the doctor because they were getting high-pitched noise only.

If you try it, turn down the volume initially!

Sony/MediaTek need to fix the standard Android raw bitstream API!

Re: 5.1 DD and DTS passthrough on XD80 model

diodorus — Fri, 24 Mar 2017 13:24:12 GMT

Yes i saw that post before, and I'm also not keen in the pcm hack.

What still puzzles me is how come everything was working fine until a couple of weeks ago. I've always been on official Kodi versions, and the fact it was working was the reason why i even purchased a Plex pass (to be used within Kodi), so I'm sure I'm not dreaming... I can provide the test files i always use to check 5.1 pass through if anyone is curious...

Thanks for your input anyway!

Betreff: 5.1 DD and DTS passthrough on KD-43XD8099

johayne98 — Sun, 01 Apr 2018 14:33:41 GMT

Why is this thread shown to be resolved ( a solution is shown ) ?

I have been trying at every Firmware update to get the 5.1 DD and/or DTS decoding working from within the Kodi App . As you may know the Native App allows the passthough of DTS/ DD 5.1 , this has been the case for some time . Why is it that thrid Party Apps/ API cannot passthrough the Audio Stream correctly ? Has there been any official mention of this from Sony

How will we know when ( if ever ) this gets addressed ? It is a waste of time testing each firmware update, hoping for a fix , if there is no official release notes or plan around this Codec issue .

Is this worth raising with SOny support ?

Betreff: 5.1 DD and DTS passthrough on KD-43XD8099

kinggo01 — Sun, 01 Apr 2018 15:09:56 GMT

@johayne98wrote:
Is this worth raising with SOny support ?

No. There's a quite long list of bugs on Android TV platform on this very SUPPORT forum for quite a long time and very litle has changed.

Basically, 95% of people don't care about smart part of the TV so the only things that SONY tries to improve is the DVB-T and those built in services like netflix, amazon and such. And in the process of doing so and raising android versions they break some core functionality that was there since 2015. And google also doesn't give a since there's mostly no add's here.

Betreff: 5.1 DD and DTS passthrough on KD-43XD8099

johayne98 — Sun, 01 Apr 2018 15:17:47 GMT

Hmm , it maybe worth me returning this TV then , I guess only the Real techies will notice the DTS and DD who will notice passthough issues . As per my reply here Mediatek passthrough screwed , does this affect all Sony Bravia Android TV's ( assuming they all use the Mediateck Chipset) ? If so we may want to consider a phillps for PAssthough on Third Party apps ?

I am using game stream and find it frustrating having to have a PC next to the TV just to have the sound

Betreff: 5.1 DD and DTS passthrough on KD-43XD8099

kinggo01 — Sun, 01 Apr 2018 17:41:24 GMT

well, the thing is that all sony and philips TVs use the same mediacrap SoCs with pretty much the same issues. Android TV goes the same way as google TV did before. The fact is that it was potentially the most advanced platform, at least when it comes to 3rd party apps, services and various smart integration but in the end it's just another embedded platform with tons of issues even for the embedded apps.

Betreff: 5.1 DD and DTS passthrough on KD-43XD8099

diodorus — Wed, 04 Apr 2018 09:53:37 GMT

After months and months of frustration I gave up and got a nvidia shield tv pro: best decision ever, I can't belive the difference (not only about the audio issues, but also in terms of video playback). I strongly suggest to stop relying on these mediatek android tv implementations, you will just waste your time.

Betreff: 5.1 DD and DTS passthrough on KD-43XD8099

mmhorda — Sat, 05 May 2018 15:50:12 GMT

Yes everyboy has nVidia Shield today.

But everybody would love SONY Android TV finally to do some audio passgthrough as well without "SHIELD".

How is the situation now? Is it any better with the latest March 28th update on ATV2?
I know 3rd party apps Devs could be still late with their updates but it would be really nice to know if they can finally start codding AC3 + DTS passthrough in their apps.

Betreff: 5.1 DD and DTS passthrough on KD-43XD8099

mmhorda — Thu, 07 Jun 2018 12:53:03 GMT

No difference even with April update.

By the way I own Sony and Philips TV's Yes both have issues with passthrough BUT philips somehow handles it better.

The same SoC. The sameAndroid version 7.0

Philips TV
front left, center, front right - OK
surround left mixed with front left, surround right mixed with front right
no LFE!
Sony TV
center - OK
front left, front right, surround left, surround right are all mixed together. (f....ng mono 😄 - the same as via TOSLINK though)
no LFE!

Betreff: 5.1 DD and DTS passthrough on KD-43XD8099

Kuschelmonschter — Thu, 07 Jun 2018 12:54:46 GMT

The TV either does passthrough the Dolby bitstream or not. There is no in between with some channels working and some not...

Betreff: 5.1 DD and DTS passthrough on KD-43XD8099

mmhorda — Thu, 07 Jun 2018 13:37:59 GMT

I have both. Sony and Philips.

I don't know why they have a bit differnet behaviour with sound output but they do have.
Philips outputs sounds a bit better. I can't explain why.

Betreff: 5.1 DD and DTS passthrough on KD-43XD8099

Kuschelmonschter — Fri, 08 Jun 2018 04:58:58 GMT

It is just not possible. You can't alter a compressed bitstream without transcoding. So the TV would need to decode it and re-encode with different channel configuration/mixing. The only thing I can imagine is that you use Kodi and different versions on both sets which probably do some bad transcoding/mixing.

Betreff: 5.1 DD and DTS passthrough on KD-43XD8099

mmhorda — Fri, 08 Jun 2018 06:19:04 GMT

I am not using KODI at all.

I don't know why you are saying it is impossible if i am telling you it is different.
I start the same file in PLEX (dolby digital sound speaker test) and play it.
It plays different (like on my message above). I don't know why it is different but it is!