topic Re: Motionflow issue in Android TV

Motionflow issue

Alex299def — Wed, 12 Jul 2017 22:52:52 GMT

I find out something intresting about Motionflow in my KDL 50W755C. Motionflow not work in default or any other players when videofile have aspect ration other than 16:9.

Re: Motionflow issue

Anonymous — Thu, 13 Jul 2017 16:11:57 GMT

Hi there

How do you come to the conclusion that motionflow doesnt work with aspect ratio's other an 16:9? I can test things on my TV as I will have the same firmware version as you and should work the same - if you can provide steps on how to reproduce this?

Cheers

Re: Motionflow issue

Alex299def — Fri, 14 Jul 2017 00:25:55 GMT

I have two video samples: one 2.35:1 aspect ratio and frame size 1920x804(Motionflow not working)

other close to 16:9 aspect ratio and frame size 1920x1040(Motionflow working perfectly). In this sample black bars was added manually.

2.35:1

16:9

Thanks for answer

Re: Motionflow issue

Kuschelmonschter — Fri, 14 Jul 2017 07:13:45 GMT

I also have samples where MotionFlow fails. It can easily be determined with samples which include a ticker. When the ticker is more into the middle of the screen, MotionFlow works better compared to when the ticker is more to the bottom. I assume that MotionFlow gives more weight to the center of the image. But that's just wild guessing.

In your case I would have assumed the opposite as the 2.35:1 sample has no encoded black bars, so MotionFlow should probably have a better chance to get it right.

How do you determine whether MotionFlow is working/not working?

Re: Motionflow issue

Alex299def — Fri, 14 Jul 2017 09:16:28 GMT

Its easy to test motionflow.

Install VLC player,
download any 2.35:1 video,
play it in VLC player,
in VLC player set motionflow at custom, smoothness at 5 and film mode at high

You will see that nothing change, but when you stretch image in VLC player motionflow start working

Re: Motionflow issue

Kuschelmonschter — Fri, 14 Jul 2017 12:33:56 GMT

And you notice it by the artifacts and soap opera effect that it produces at Smoothness=5?

Re: Motionflow issue

Alex299def — Fri, 14 Jul 2017 16:40:40 GMT

Its only for testing. In stretched 2.35:1video motionflow works and you see soap opera effect, but in not stretched 2.35:1 video no difference if smoothness=5 or off, motionflow not working

Re: Motionflow issue

Kuschelmonschter — Tue, 25 Jul 2017 06:26:45 GMT

~~I now tried your samples and can't confirm your findings. I tried it from within Kodi and applied a Smoothness of 5. Both samples played with SOE and and quite a lot of artifacting.~~

Kodi asked me to set the 2D/3D mode for the 16:9 sample. So seems like this a 3D sample? I wasn't asked for the 2.35:1 sample though. Probably that's what makes the difference? But then again I would expect the 16:9 sample to fail for MotionFlow.

[EDIT] Used samples in wrong way. New answer here.

Re: Motionflow issue

Kuschelmonschter — Mon, 17 Jul 2017 10:28:33 GMT

I checked the samples with MediaInfo...

The 16:9 is H.264 AVC.

The 2.35:1 is H.264 AVC MVC (3D).

Re: Motionflow issue

John_Keats — Mon, 17 Jul 2017 19:50:13 GMT

I tried the sample and changing smoothness didn't change anything - no SOE at all.

Generally for all full screen videos without black borders, the picture seems to be more smooth.

Re: Motionflow issue

Perlnx — Fri, 21 Jul 2017 18:06:45 GMT

My 49x8000D also got this problem.

Try with Kodi, any video with aspect ratio 16:9 Motionflow work perfect, but other video with 2.2:1, 2.222, 1.85:1, 2.40:1 Motionflow not work.

with maximum smoothness there are no difference compare to off.
I have noticed this thing few month ago but I never think it relate to aspect ratio.
The main features of television should not to be problem like this.

ps. I also try to stretch these video to full screen, change to 16:9 seem motionflow back to work with more smooth but I can't watch these movie with abnormal aspect ratio.

Re: Motionflow issue

John_Keats — Sun, 23 Jul 2017 07:53:39 GMT

In my opinion this is old bug, but I cannot conifrm that or check, since firmware downgrade is not possible. Nevertheless, I remember that there was some threads regarding motion and aspect ration.

First - is should be confirmed that occurs in all players (Sony video + all others), = Sony bug.

Re: Motionflow issue

Perlnx — Mon, 24 Jul 2017 04:35:13 GMT

Tested today with sony video player.

Same video without re-encode but demux and change aspect ratio.

16:9 Work

1.85:1 Work

2.2:1 Not work

2.222 Not work

2.40:1 Not work

It doesnt relate to aspect ratio. If video render in full screen, Motionflow work

but any video with black bar, Motionflow not work.

Re: Motionflow issue

Kuschelmonschter — Mon, 24 Jul 2017 06:36:30 GMT

I am still not sure whether I understand it correctly, because what you are doing is faking around to prove something. How about some real life examples?

Changing the aspect in the container might not always have the same effect as players might use the video stream aspect.

So what's the true resolution an aspect ratio of your video? By changing the container aspect, you let the player app distort the video vertically, introducing black bars, right?

Can't you find real life examples to reproduce it? Do the samples on page 1 work to reproduce the issue? There was some mention about manually changing aspect, but I really don't know what to do to reproduce it:

I have two video samples: one 2.35:1 aspect ratio and frame size 1920x804(Motionflow not working)
other close to 16:9 aspect ratio and frame size 1920x1040(Motionflow working perfectly). In this sample black bars was added manually.

It is again about faking somehow, right?

Please explain in more detail and maybe work with pictures.

Re: Motionflow issue

Alex299def — Mon, 24 Jul 2017 20:31:47 GMT

I can confirm motionflow not work in VLC Player, MX Player, VIMU Player, Archos video player. Only in fullscreen videos it works perfect.

Its a firmware bug

Re: Motionflow issue

Kuschelmonschter — Tue, 25 Jul 2017 06:19:49 GMT

OK, I can reproduce it now. You don't need to remux video with different container AR. Just use a player where you can manually override AR.

Indeed the MotionFlow interpolation effect is much less pronounced on video with black bars, like for example those in a true 2.35:1 cinemascope format (so not 16:9 with encoded black bars). In this case, the player has to add black bars. True 2.35:1 content without encoded black bars can easily be stretched to 16:9 without any black bars (it is vertically distorted then). MotionFlow interpolation effect is much more pronounced afterwards.

I need to further investigate, but in my opinion, MotionFlow still has an effect on video with black bars. There is only slight SOE. But in those actions scenes in the sample given earlier, one can still spot motion interpolation artifacts. So I think the effect is just less pronounced.

The whole MCFI thing is a hardware machine IMHO. Probably the algorithm is not as accurate anymore with black bars. I am not sure whether something can be done about it in firmware...

Re: Motionflow issue

iamnague — Tue, 25 Jul 2017 09:06:25 GMT

I confirm the issue: I have both TV at home (55XE9005 and 55X8509C), and movie playback smoothness is far not as good on X90E as X85C with apps like vlc, kodi or emby (with exact same setting in picture profile).

I hope this issue can fix in firmware.

Re: Motionflow issue

Perlnx — Tue, 25 Jul 2017 10:57:48 GMT

I have ton of video that Motionflow doesnt work. The reason that I tried same video & change aspect ratio because I need to cut any possible variant to test, ex : video format, video frame rate, bit depth, container type etc.. and focus about aspect ratio which lead us suspect about black bar and yes if I stretched the video to 16:9, Motionflow work flawless but I cannot enjoy movie with abnormal aspect ratio.

Many movie nowaday come with 2.40:1 aspect ratio, less with 16:9

That mean Motionflow will not work with most movie. This is no good.

Re: Motionflow issue

Anonymous — Tue, 25 Jul 2017 11:02:15 GMT

Hi All

In the Advanced Picture settings, under the section of 'Motion' can you experiment with 'Film Mode'

High:

Process IP (Interlaced-Progressive) conversions appropriate for a wide selection of video formats, with additional frame compensation to remove judder.

Medium:

Process IP (Interlaced-Progressive) conversions appropriate for movies and computer graphics, with additional frame compensation to remove judder.

Low:

Process IP (Interlaced-Progressive) conversions appropriate for movies and computer graphics

Off:

Optimises picture quality based on video content, such as movies and computer graphics.

Cheers

Re: Motionflow issue

Perlnx — Tue, 25 Jul 2017 11:16:00 GMT

My television have just "auto" and "off"
Select both does not affect to Motionflow, same result.